Facebook Live: More on Photobiomodulation

In this Facebook Live, Apollo Health’s Chief Science Officer, Dr. Dale Bredesen, and Chief Health Liaison Julie Gregory were joined by Dr. Marvin Berman, founder, and president of the QuietMIND Foundation, and R&D Director & Clinical Consultant of Neuronic, a health technology company that is advancing the use of infrared light to promote brain health and performance. This therapy involves the use of a helmet-shaped device that provides light and energy to improve mitochondrial functionality at the cellular level for those suffering from neurodegenerative conditions. They explored the evidence, how it works, who should use it, best practices, and how to determine which device is right for you. We’ve included a complete recording of the session and a full transcript below for your convenience.

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Transcript:

00:00:00:03 – 00:00:26:16 — Dr. Dale Bredesen: So, welcome everyone to Facebook. Like we’ve just been chatting here with Dr. Marvin Berman: and with Julie G. And thanks to both of you for taking some time with us today. And our sympathies go out to the royal family, and we look for Queen Elizabeth’s second passing. And we hope that, in fact, one of her interests, and certainly now King Charles, had a great interest in health and then future health and how to improve this.

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00:00:27:01 – 00:01:00:11 — Dr. Dale Bredesen: We hope that addressing cognitive decline is going to be something that she would be approving of. Let’s start with Dr. Berman. We talked once before. We’re thrilled to have you back again. I think that you know, just to lay out the big picture, we’re all interested in preventing and reversing cognitive decline. Such a huge problem all over the world is now said to be based on epidemiology, the third leading cause of death in the United States, the second leading cause in the U.K., by the way, and the first number one cause of death in U.K. women.

00:01:01:03 – 00:01:29:13 — Dr. Dale Bredesen: So, this is a huge problem. And the research that we did over the years really suggests that this is at its most fundamental nature, a network insufficiency. You have hormones, and you have toxins, you have inflammatory ends, you have pathogens. You have all these different things kind of playing on this neuroplasticity network. And ultimately, you’re failing in that what you supply is being exceeded chronically by the demand.

00:01:29:21 – 00:01:58:04 — Dr. Dale Bredesen: And the good news is, when we address that, improve the supply, and reduce the demand, we see repeatedly people getting better and staying better. And it’s come up repeatedly that one of the things when you look at an overall protocol for people to get them better stimulation with light, the sort of thing that Dr. Berman is a real expert in, has been one of the things that have been associated with best outcomes.

00:01:58:04 – 00:02:18:00 — Dr. Dale Bredesen: And so, Dr. Berman, thanks so much for joining us. And I know you’ve actually got a few slides to show with some of your own data. We we’ve been talking recently about our own trial that we just published a few weeks ago, where we saw 84% of the people actually improved. Great to see your data. Please show us your data on improvement with light.

00:02:19:11 – 00:02:56:16 — Dr. Marvin Berman: Great. Thanks, Dale and Julie, and thanks and everybody. Thanks for being here. Thanks for being interested in noninvasive, non-drug options for treatment. That’s what brings us all together here on The Talk. I hope that we can encourage and inspire people to take seriously the idea that there really is something that you can do to make a significant difference in cognitive health and that we have to dispel that fatalism that was so prevalent for a long time, which we’ve now found out was based on a lie.

00:02:57:00 – 00:03:41:18 — Dr. Marvin Berman: Yeah, absolutely. I’m really glad to be able to be here now and to share the information. What we came to see was that photobiomodulation was the tissue level intervention that we could rely on, and she was able to make that specific biological change in the brain functioning and specifically in the neurons so that we could elevate the brain’s ability not only to heal itself and repair but also to confer a certain degree of protection against further damage.

00:03:42:00 – 00:04:20:19 — Dr. Marvin Berman: And we saw that with the 1007 nanometer infrared light, which is different from a lot of the other devices that have been out there for a long time. And we started looking at 1070 back in 2007, and 2008, and we saw that there was a significant difference in the penetration and in the effects of the different wavelengths. Recently, one of our colleagues at the University of Texas at Arlington published a paper showing that the 1070 they use is 1064, an 800-nanometer laser.

00:04:21:03 – 00:04:50:11 — Dr. Marvin Berman: They showed that that was a significant improvement in the oxygen in that hemoglobin and that when you use 1064 were 1070, you were getting a 100% increase in oxygenated hemoglobin and cytochrome C oxidase, which is the chemical, the protein that really stimulates the production of ATP and that’s one of the things that we always need more of because we’re always using all of it all the time.

00:04:51:02 – 00:05:14:24 — Dr. Dale Bredesen:  Let’s back up for (bit) here, because I think you’re using some terms that some people do not. Well, that’s right. Okay, so first of all, there’s the wavelength of the light that you’re actually using. So, what you’re talking about, you know, I remember from when I used to do research, I was using a spectrophotometer and using it using fluoroscopy.

00:05:14:24 – 00:05:21:21 — Dr. Dale Bredesen: You can see to about,  a human can see to about 690 nanometers or so, maybe six, eight.

00:05:21:21 – 00:05:27:19 — Dr. Marvin Berman: So, you do a little bit at 800, you can get up around 800, and you see a little bit, yeah.

00:05:27:21 – 00:05:50:22 — Dr. Dale Bredesen: Basically, it becomes red, and then it just disappears. So as you’re getting above their, you know, 850, 900, these are longer wavelengths. You’re headed in long range, you’re headed way out to radio waves, but you’re starting with which is with what is now infrared. So now you’re talking about near infrared and far infrared. You’re talking about you get out to about a little over a thousand, right?

00:05:50:24 – 00:05:54:18 — Dr. Dale Bredesen: That’s where you’re actually seeing the best results. Is that fair to say?

00:05:54:22 – 00:06:22:06 — Dr. Marvin Berman: That’s fair. That’s fair to say. And it’s important. I think you’re right to go back to the basics and make sure people understand that 85% of the reason there’s life on Earth is because of that near-infrared band. Right. In terms of stimulating the activity in chlorophyll and photosynthesis in the same way that it does it in the brain with ATP and the mitochondria.

00:06:22:13 – 00:06:45:07 — Dr. Dale Bredesen: Now let’s also tell people, because people worry sometimes, oh, wait a minute, light that can be damaging. Yes, ultraviolet light. We’re now talking about, you know, 250 to 80. That’s down in the ultraviolet (range). That’s powerful. Light high energy can be damaging to things like DNA. And now we’re talking about x-rays and gamma rays, which are even shorter and more powerful.

00:06:45:15 – 00:07:10:05 — Dr. Dale Bredesen: We’re now way past the visible spectrum all the way out into the infrared. So, this light is not going to damage your DNA. If anything, it actually has a healing property, and that is even true in the retina. This is an area that’s actually very interesting. Now, the question then is, we’re dealing with a disease where there is a network insufficiency, and you’re now putting some energy back.

00:07:10:05 – 00:07:28:02 — Dr. Dale Bredesen: You’re seeing it in hemoglobin; you’re seeing it in Cytochrome C, which is a critical part of your mitochondrial function. So how is the body taking advantage of that? Are they absorbing the photons? What is actually happening at that wavelength?

00:07:28:11 – 00:07:50:09 — Dr. Marvin Berman: The light is being absorbed by the mitochondria as if it was food, but it’s stimulating one particular part of the mitochondria, which then speeds up that little motor that we see in the mitochondria, and it speeds up the eventual production of the ATP or adenosine triphosphate.

00:07:50:15 – 00:08:05:17 — Dr. Dale Bredesen: Now, do you see more ATP production when you do that? Yes. Okay. So that’s a critical piece. So, you are actually producing energy now. Of course, one of the other areas where energy is a critical failure is Parkinson’s. Yes. Have you and have you tried this for people with Parkinson’s?

00:08:05:19 – 00:08:33:21 — Dr. Marvin Berman: Well, interestingly, the study that we did with our partners at Baylor Research Institute, which is connected with Texas A&M and the Baylor Scott and White Department of Neurosurgery. So, my colleagues, there were getting patients subjects for the research from the Regional Movement Disorders Clinic downstairs. Yeah. They had people who were duly diagnosed with dementia and Parkinson’s.

00:08:34:02 – 00:09:06:16 — Dr. Marvin Berman: So at the end of the trial, we were only focused on dementia and cognitive functioning, but the subjects and their families reported uniformly that there was greater fluidity of movement, greater ability to understand speech, better sleep, better mood, more willing, less apathy, and more willingness to participate in the family of all of the people who were getting the active treatment because this was a randomized double-blind placebo trial.

00:09:06:23 – 00:09:36:23 — Dr. Marvin Berman: So, we were very pleased to see that. And I’ve certainly seen that clinically in our practice over the years that people, when they get the right amount at the right location, they get much better results because you don’t want to do too much stimulation and produce too much dopamine in the central and the sensory-motor area. You want to have it all really back in the occipital region where the dopamine neurons are getting damaged.

00:09:37:05 – 00:10:01:10 — Dr. Marvin Berman: So we focused, and that’s why we designed the new radiant device that we’re now able to provide. We designed it so that it has the ability to selectively deliver the light in the front, the back, the left, and the right. And we can design protocols to specifically target areas specifically because of this issue of where you need the treatment.

00:10:01:10 – 00:10:02:22 — Dr. Marvin Berman: Where do you need the stimulation?

00:10:03:09 – 00:10:16:19 — Dr. Dale Bredesen: Now, I imagine a lot of people are saying right now, hey, wait a minute, are you going to drill open my skull here to put this (there)? How are you going to get your stimulation into my brain without hurting my skull?

00:10:17:13 – 00:10:20:07 — Dr. Marvin Berman: I think this is where I should probably go to the slides.

00:10:20:07 – 00:10:25:08 — Dr. Dale Bredesen: Okay, great.

00:10:25:08 – 00:11:04:01 — Dr. Marvin Berman: So, the focus of our work has been primarily on dementia. And we know that, as you know, this is a worldwide problem, and we know that there’s no early diagnosis, though there seems to be mention of that even today from Germany. But what we know is that near-infrared light directed externally toward the skull can penetrate into the skull and down into the brain just by virtue of the wavelength of the infrared light being able to penetrate deeply into the brain.

00:11:04:08 – 00:11:34:05 — Dr. Marvin Berman: And we know that it’s going to improve the mitochondrial activity that I mentioned before and thereby improve the available energy that’s going to be then able to accelerate healing as well as protecting against further injury. And that’s what we call photo bio modulation. When we did the trial with about 100 subjects, we saw that the mini-mental status exam was one of the things that changed dramatically over two months.

00:11:34:14 – 00:12:00:15 — Dr. Marvin Berman: We saw people who were using the device, putting it on their head, pushing a button, and letting their brain be stimulated for 6 minutes twice a day. At the end of two months, there was a 4.8 improvement in the mini-mental status exam among the people who got the active treatment compared to the controls. And that was one of the common points the people used as the clock drawing test.

00:12:00:15 – 00:12:37:17 — Dr. Marvin Berman: And you can see that there is a significant difference in the clock drawing from those active in the placebo group. Yeah. All right. We then did what’s called quantitative EEG, which is a 19-channel, again, noninvasive recording in the same way identical to an EKG. Except you’re putting these electrodes on your head, but we’re measuring 19 very specific locations and then being able to compare those individual readings against a normative database that’s broken out by age, gender, and left or right-handed.

00:12:37:22 – 00:13:09:09. — Dr. Marvin Berman: We can see how an individual brain electrical activity is stacking up against an average of people who are, you know, the same gender, same age. Within about a year or two, and same handedness about how they stack up in terms of their brain electrical activity. And what we saw was that there was a really significant aggregate change in the amplitude or the Volt, the voltage of the slower brainwaves, which are the ones associated with dementia and its progression.

00:13:09:09 – 00:13:37:10 — Dr. Marvin Berman: The more people progress in memory loss and dementia, the more higher amplitude, slow waves, and the delta in the theta we see. And so here you can see on the left is the pre and the post, and we can see that these blue areas are indicative of a significant change in the reduction of slow wave amplitude. So that’s a really big improvement in terms of overall power, right?

00:13:37:11 – 00:14:05:10 — Dr. Marvin Berman: We’re seeing that again, these slow wave power, the amplitude, the voltage is significantly reduced. These red areas, in the beginning, are now all the way down to this one little area here. And this is a comparison of all of the people in the in the treatment group. This is an aggregate value. And here we’re talking about the sensorimotor rhythm, which is that brain state that is the most relaxed.

00:14:05:10 – 00:14:44:19 — Dr. Marvin Berman: It’s kind of relaxed attention. It’s like being in the zone. And so, we’re seeing that being in the zone, the amount of area, amount of area that you’re producing, that activity went from here. All the way into this whole area in the center, in the back. This is very important data about how the brain changes state just from a photo by on modulation alone. The solution that we came up with was to modify the device so that we could deliver targeted, as I said, targeted stimulation using a lower power but a much more targeted ability.

00:14:45:03 – 00:15:18:12 — Dr. Marvin Berman: And we can do that with standard settings, and we can also do it then in customization. And the customization happens in this screen, where we can then independently segregate where we deliver the light, at what pulse rate, and at what intensity. And this is all driven by the quantitative EEG, which I was talking about before. And so, we use the EEG as a way to target what kind of stimulation is needed at what location and at what intensity.

00:15:18:20 – 00:15:39:12 — Dr. Dale Bredesen: Right. Gotcha. And then there’s a lot of discussion about gamma frequency. So now modulating the light at something like 40 hertz, which is typically, and I see here a pulse rate of 20. How did you choose 20? And do you think that gamma, you know, stimulation is better, worse, the same? What’s your sense about that?

00:15:40:06 – 00:16:10:22 — Dr. Marvin Berman: That was purely for an example. But if we were doing treatment with people with cognitive issues, we generally start with morning, an AM treatment model that involves 40 hertz. We can also then move between 14 and 20, which is the smaller low beta area, which then helps people improve their focus and their relaxation, but not yet get too overstimulated.

00:16:11:05 – 00:16:40:08 — Dr. Marvin Berman: And then we can move into evening sundown, and we can switch the treatment to the theta and the delta activity. What we’re really doing in the broad scheme of this treatment model is we’re trying to re-normalize circadian rhythm, right? So, we’re waking people up in the morning when the sun comes up, and then we’re helping people go to sleep when the sun goes down, and we’re seeing significant improvement in the sleep architecture, and the quality is fantastic.

00:16:40:08 – 00:16:58:11 — Dr. Dale Bredesen: Yeah. Which is obviously a very, very important area. As I understand it, then what you’re showing us, these data with 4.8. improvement on MSI, which is striking, then you’re really looking at that as a single modality. Is it correct that they didn’t change anything else? It was just this.

00:16:59:07 – 00:17:15:02 — Dr. Marvin Berman: Constant, right? That’s correct. Everything was held constant, and they just got the whole they got the light therapy, and two months later, they did a beginning, a middle, and a two-month assessment of quantitative EEG and then a full neuropsychiatric.

00:17:15:02 – 00:17:31:00 — Dr. Dale Bredesen: Yeah. And we often talk about what is the difference between someone with subjective cognitive impairment, mild cognitive impairment, and then dementia. Do you see differences in terms of the response of people who are further along or people who are less far along?

00:17:31:19 – 00:18:10:01 — Dr. Marvin Berman: Yeah, very clearly you can see, and neurology has been publishing this for 50 years, but they never had anything to offer, so they just kept doing the same thing over and over again. But when I saw the data, it was very clear that the people with mild impairment had only a certain amount of amplitude, amplitude, slow waves, and a certain decrement in the faster wave amplitudes, and that as people progressed in dementia, there was a direct correlation between progression and dementia and the amplitude of slow waves and the decrement in fast waves.

00:18:10:12 – 00:18:21:08 — Dr. Dale Bredesen: Right? So, the response was what I’m talking about when you see a difference in response to your infrared when you have someone who’s farther along versus someone who’s less far along.

00:18:21:24 – 00:18:45:02 — Dr. Marvin Berman: Of course, we see that there’s more latitude in their ability to reverse the process. And that’s why when we talked the last time, you know, everything we said was time is the enemy. Yeah. And what we need to do is start as early as possible. And that’s when you talked about the fact that seeing even mild; you’re really talking about a process that’s been going on for 10 to 15 years.

00:18:45:10 – 00:19:21:18 — Dr. Marvin Berman: Yeah, that’s absolutely true. So now that we can start looking at biomarkers to determine when people are starting to show those problems and then provide these non-drug, noninvasive interventions that people can do literally themselves at home, I think we’re in a much better position, especially given the fact that I think the data now shows that something between ten and 30% of everyone who’s gotten COVID is independent of the severity of their symptoms is likely to start showing neurological symptoms.

00:19:22:03 – 00:19:25:19 — Dr. Dale Bredesen: Yeah, so really good point. That brain fog is a big one.

00:19:25:19 – 00:19:58:11 — Dr. Marvin Berman: For all the medicine. Yeah. The long COVID is now a tremendously difficult problem, and luckily the new radiant and the V light are now showing that they can be effective interventions for COVID. We published a paper, a narrative review on using ten seven D as a treatment for COVID about four months ago, and now the light is going to be presenting at Harvard tomorrow on their findings, having to do with COVID and the like.

00:19:59:02 – 00:20:24:16 — Dr. Dale Bredesen: That’s a good point. So, if you could talk a little bit, I know with V, one of the concerns is how much power does it actually have? How much penetration does that actually have? Your equipment is a little it’s bigger. It’s more powerful. It’s also more expensive. Are there advantages and disadvantages? And do you see differences in the data that you see generated from the near radiant versus the V light?

00:20:25:07 – 00:21:11:19 — Dr. Marvin Berman: Well, we’ve certainly seen that there’s a significant difference. And Dr. Hanli Liu’s  lab at UT Arlington published on the changes in the hemoglobin that we were talking about and the cytochrome c, and there was a 100% difference between the 800 and the 850 and the 1064. The 1070 produced significantly more over the same amount of time. The thing that was really interesting in that study is that they then did a comparison of the 810 laser I’m sorry, the 800 laser, and the 810 LEIDY, and they showed that there was a similar progression of improving hemoglobin and cytochrome c up to about 4 minutes.

00:21:11:19 – 00:21:36:08 — Dr. Marvin Berman: But then the laser, it increased. But then, as soon as they turned off the laser, the activity in the improvement dropped like a rock, whereas the Leidy continued to improve slowly beyond the time that they were continuing to measure. So, the issue of lasting effect, right, that’s what we’re getting at. What is going to produce a lasting effect?

00:21:36:16 – 00:21:45:19 — Dr. Marvin Berman: Clearly, it’s the LED activity, and we now know that the 1070 has a greater impact in terms of those two main biological markers.

00:21:45:22 – 00:22:12:07 — Dr. Dale Bredesen: Yeah. And maybe I’ll come to Julie for a moment because Julie interacts with thousands of people and is the founder of ApoE4 dot info. So many people are APOE4 positive and certainly interested in the prevention and reversal of cognitive decline. Do you have a sense, Julie, for overall in the group and on APOE4 for that info, what percentage of people do you think are doing some form of light therapy?

00:22:13:11 – 00:22:39:00 — Julie Gregory: You know, it’s hard for me to get a sense of the percentage, and I’m looking at a big audience per week for that info and all of your followers on Facebook in the various groups. One thing I can say is that I see about 50% of people getting improvement from this, and about 50% aren’t noticing any benefit.

00:22:39:00 – 00:23:06:22 — Julie Gregory: Yeah. And I was going to say, Dr. Berman, very kindly let me try his device. Yeah. And I was one of those that would give it mixed reviews. It caused stuffiness of my sinuses, but one positive that I did notice was that I wasn’t feeling sad before I did it, but I felt happier after I did it.

00:23:07:07 – 00:23:22:22 — Julie Gregory: I felt this lightning of mood. But ultimately, the sinus issue that it was creating for me led me not to be able to use it. So, I’d love to hear from Dr. Berman why that happened.

00:23:23:04 – 00:23:43:12Dr. Marvin Berman: Yeah. Thank you for bringing it up. I really appreciate that. Because one of the things that I found, and we were just getting started when we shared that device with you, one of the things that I wanted to make sure of was that we were doing very close monitoring and supervision of how people were using it.

00:23:44:02 – 00:24:23:04 — Dr. Marvin Berman: And one of the things that I did, which I regret and I apologize publicly, is I didn’t stay on top of it as much as I should have with you, because basically, you used it in a way that would give you that overdose reaction and that if you had you if you use it more stepwise and less intensely, one of the things that you can do is mitigate those overdose reactions because sinus responses, agitation, irritability, dizziness, headache, all of those things can be reactions to getting too much stimulation.

00:24:23:12 – 00:24:39:09 — Dr. Marvin Berman: So, one of the things that we’ve made a very strong effort to do with everyone who’s using the neurotic is that they get direct supervision from me on a regular basis to set up the protocol. So that never happens again.

00:24:40:12 – 00:24:40:20 — Julie Gregory: Maybe.

00:24:40:24 – 00:24:41:13 — Dr. Dale Bredesen: If I could just …

00:24:42:03 – 00:25:04:05 — Julie Gregory: Oh, I’m sorry, I’ve got to jump in with something. So, I probably did overdo it at the beginning, but then I stopped it for several weeks and just used it for a very short period, like three minutes as you had recommended, and the same thing happened. It makes me wonder if something else was happening.

00:25:04:13 – 00:25:05:13 — Dr. Dale Bredesen: Yeah, you know.

00:25:06:04 – 00:25:32:04 — Dr. Marvin Berman: Okay, well, it could be the three minutes. This is a great point for some people. Three minutes is still too much. With some people, 30 seconds is all they can make good use of a day. And if that’s the case, we need to work with them to make sure that they’re only using the right amount of dose for them at that time.

00:25:32:04 – 00:25:44:13 — Dr. Marvin Berman:  And it’s really important that people understand this isn’t a hairdryer, you know what I mean? It’s like we really have to make sure that you’re following you. Like, nobody would do that with a bottle of pills.

00:25:45:03 – 00:25:45:10 — Dr. Dale Bredesen: Yeah.

00:25:45:21 – 00:26:03:05 — Dr. Marvin Berman: But with the helmet, they feel less willing, more willing to experiment. And we need to make sure that we’re being very mindful in how we help people manage the way they use this tool because it can be very powerful and very useful, and it can give you a runny nose.

00:26:04:02 – 00:26:26:09 — Dr. Dale Bredesen: Yeah. You know, I’m wondering, we’re always coming back to the fact that historically there’s been no understanding about what Alzheimer’s actually is, and that’s been the problem. So, people think it’s all about misfolded proteins, or it’s all about amyloid, or it’s all about Tao or herpes simplex, or you just go right down the list. And none of these has ever led to a really successful treatment.

00:26:26:19 – 00:26:47:19 — Dr. Dale Bredesen: When we look at this kind of supply and demand of this network, we can start to see, okay, here are the things we need to change. Do we know we are missing a pathogen? Are we missing a toxin? Julie, I’m wondering, you are, you know, one of the few, I think, who has really done an amazing job. And you’re at the point where your supply and demand have done very well.

00:26:47:19 – 00:27:24:15 — Dr. Dale Bredesen: You’ve been over ten years improving yourself and doing very, very well. I kind of wonder, is it possible that you’ve kind of met that? And so, anything you’re doing with the light is actually maybe pushing you beyond this. You’re going to have to go up very slowly with that. I don’t know. But I know that I know you as an extremely diligent person, and you’ve run down things like toxins you’ve been exposed to and pathogens you’ve been exposed to and treated them one by one and gotten yourself to be insulin sensitive and metabolically flexible and hormonally optimal and on and on and on.

00:27:24:15 – 00:27:35:24 — Dr. Dale Bredesen: I wonder whether this may be something that if you are a little out of kilter, maybe this would have helped you more instead of maybe pushing you over the top. It’s just, you know, just a thought.

00:27:36:10 – 00:28:01:17 — Dr. Marvin Berman: It’s also that we didn’t segment the delivery of the light. We let you use it all globally. And for some people, that’s really useful. For some people, you really have to target it. And that’s why we’re using the QE EEG in order to target people. It’s great. This is a great conversation because it’s very important people understand that, you know, this is something that is part of a process.

00:28:02:10 – 00:28:04:20 — Dr. Dale Bredesen: And do you think this help is not a magic bullet?

00:28:04:20 – 00:28:06:10 — Dr. Marvin Berman: You know, it’s part of the process.

00:28:06:23 – 00:28:10:14 — Dr. Dale Bredesen: Does this help most? When you find areas of Delta.

00:28:11:22 – 00:28:33:00 — Dr. Marvin Berman: It helps significantly in improving slow wave activity. And it helps also in decreasing the higher, faster wave activity, which is kind of the compensation that you see in the brain. So, you want to really look at whether we can mitigate both of those, and you can do it in the protocol.

00:28:33:00 – 00:28:50:18 — Dr. Dale Bredesen: Yeah. See, I don’t think Julie has a slow wave in her brain. She’s always going, she’s always got something going on, and she’s amazing, and she’s got a great memory and great. I know it’s great. Now that’s waves from some inflammation. She may have some of those because she’s certainly been exposed to some inflammatories in the past.

00:28:51:03 – 00:29:12:20 — Dr. Dale Bredesen: So maybe, maybe that’s something that could help us. All right. Well, this is very helpful. And there are some excellent questions here. Let’s go through some of these questions. One of them relates to what you talked about, Marvin, a few minutes ago, which is Long Cobra. We argue that anyone who’s had COVID and especially if you’ve had any brain fog, please get on treatment.

00:29:12:20 – 00:29:37:08 — Dr. Dale Bredesen: There is so much that can be done. And can you give it? Give yourself a better future where you’re not having cognitive decline. What’s really interesting is there’s more and more published now on the mechanisms of long COVID, and part of this seems to be immune dysregulation. Part of this seems to be a propensity to microthrombi. So, you’re really looking at areas of reduced support energetically.

00:29:37:16 – 00:29:49:05 — Dr. Dale Bredesen: Part of this seems now to be due to continued exposure to some of the spike protein, whether it, quote, live virus and propagating virus or not.

00:29:49:14 – 00:29:50:10 — Dr. Marvin Berman: Or the vaccine.

00:29:50:11 – 00:30:00:15 ‚— Dr. Dale Bredesen: Right, exactly. Or the vaccine. And so, all of these things may come into play, and we may have to address all of them. But you mentioned earlier that you’ve had some good results.

00:30:00:15 – 00:30:15:13 — Dr. Marvin Berman: And I think I can publish. I think I should send you the paper that we published because the thrombosis issue, the blood, and the clotting is one of the things the 1070 is very effective in helping to remediate.

00:30:15:24 – 00:30:24:18 — Dr. Dale Bredesen: Oh, that’s fantastic. And so, how do you think that 1070 this wavelength of 1070 in the infrared helps people who are having microthrombi?

00:30:25:09 – 00:30:56:05 — Dr. Marvin Berman: I think it helps with the apoptosis in the cells, and it certainly mitigates against apoptosis. So, cell repair is able to be maintained. I don’t want to get into the heat shock protein conversation, but it’s really in that realm where the light can activate specific emergency measures within the body to protect against the cell getting killed.

00:30:56:18 – 00:31:24:00 — Dr. Dale Bredesen: Yeah, great. So, yeah, it sounds like anyone who’s had COVID should really think seriously about brain health and brain trouble like that, but for the future as well. And I’ll see Carina is asking what type of light you mentioned very clearly, the infrared, but you also mentioned the modulation of this at typically 40 hertz, at least at times, and then getting the same rhythm that you mentioned, which is very, very interesting.

00:31:24:12 – 00:31:30:18 — Dr. Marvin Berman: And leeway size, you know, leeway size work at that at my team, you know that.

00:31:31:15 – 00:31:52:12 — Dr. Dale Bredesen: And then Yvonne says that they embarked on the protocol in Scotland at Cognition, and cognition has done an excellent job with a number of patients I’m aware of. But in this case, her mother actually declined. And I should mention, you know, in our trial, we’re not to the point where 100% of people improve, 84% of the people in the trial improved.

00:31:53:06 – 00:32:13:06 — Dr. Dale Bredesen: And as Julie was saying, and I think this is really interesting here, you had 50% of the people who seem to be responding to the light and 50% who may not, which goes along very well with what is your rate-limiting step. If your rate limiting step is that you’ve got some undiagnosed pathogen or toxin exposure, maybe the light is not going to be the best thing for you.

00:32:13:10 – 00:32:38:01 — Dr. Dale Bredesen: So, I think, you know, again, going forward, human beings are complex organisms. We’re not at the point yet where 100% of people improve. I wish we were. I look forward to the day that we will be. But the most important thing to do to get there is to determine for each person what’s driving the process. Now she goes on to say they’ve invested in both the light and also the quiet mind product that you’ve talked about.

00:32:38:01 – 00:32:59:01 — Dr. Dale Bredesen: Dr. Berman and I loved her. She said she loved to help her mother and improve her overall health. So, again, I would recommend please it when things are going downhill. The typical story is something has been missed. One of the few patients in our trial who got worse was someone who had very high amounts of mycotoxins in her home.

00:32:59:01 – 00:33:33:00 — Dr. Dale Bredesen: When she was told this by Dr. Hathaway, she said, I’m not leaving the home. I’m not fixing the mycotoxins. I’m not remediating. I’m doing it here. And, you know, not surprisingly, she actually declined over time, which is the natural history. So, yes, please do everything possible. I think it’s great that you’ve got the light, and later, I would keep on with the doctors at cognition to determine whether there are things that may not have been addressed next one here is from Raja, who’s asking about chronic fatigue with mitochondrial damage.

00:33:33:00 – 00:33:38:17 — Dr. Dale Bredesen: And you talked earlier about mitochondria. Have you done this with people who have chronic fatigue syndrome?

00:33:39:05 – 00:34:14:03 — Dr. Marvin Berman: Yes. And people who have chronic fatigue syndrome then take on dealing with the toxins. I mean, taking that three-legged stool approach. Yeah, functional medicine photo, bio modulation, and neurofeedback people take that approach. I think they’re going to see that things like chronic fatigue and all those kinds of autoimmune issues can certainly improve. But you really have to balance out what really is driving the underlying process because lifestyle medicine, I think, is the basis.

00:34:14:13 – 00:34:37:16 — Dr. Dale Bredesen: Yeah. When you look at this, I mean, people who’ve had COVID and people who have cognitive decline for other reasons and then people who have myalgic encephalomyelitis or chronic fatigue, I mean, it is amazing. You know, this group of people, this is a large group of people. And then one other question, which is critical, and this is from elected, who’s saying is this safe for those who have had seizures?

00:34:37:23 – 00:34:45:20 — Dr. Dale Bredesen: Now, we always talk about alpha frequency, does that increase risk for seizures? Have you had any problems with it?

00:34:45:20 – 00:34:53:09 — Dr. Marvin Berman: Oh, no, the seizure, yeah. The seizure risk is usually from the pulsing of stimulation coming in.

00:34:53:23 – 00:34:55:15 — Dr. Dale Bredesen: Right. Pulsing.

00:34:55:15 – 00:34:57:21 — Dr. Marvin Berman: You can’t see a visual light.

00:34:57:23 – 00:35:19:13— Dr. Dale Bredesen: Yeah, exactly right. Yeah. So, you haven’t seen an increase in seizures. So, you’re saying this is safe for somebody who’s had seizures, a decrease in seizures. Gotcha. Okay. And then mentioned here, let’s see here. I say here, and this is from Chris, who says, I used V like alpha and gamma. One year I saw no improvements. I have suspected CTE.

00:35:19:21 – 00:35:47:17 — Dr. Dale Bredesen: Can you explain why it may not help everyone? Well, I think, again, it’s important to point out that for each of us, there is a rate-limiting step and sometimes more than one. So, and I think, you know, just so I don’t want to put Julie on the spot again, but look, Julie did Fantastic four years and then came up and Julie, maybe you could talk a little bit about your own journey where you found something was not quite going right, and you had to identify it then, which you did and addressed it successfully.

00:35:48:22 – 00:36:12:21 — Julie Gregory: Thanks to you. But yeah, I did plateau after a while, and I mentioned it to you, and you told me to get checked out for chronic inflammatory response syndrome. I did all those biomarkers, and they were all out of kilter. You were absolutely right. And then you helped me find a practitioner that helped me identify that I had Lyme disease.

00:36:12:21 – 00:36:26:23 — Julie Gregory: Coinfection called Babesiosis duncani. Right. Just yeah. Yeah. And it was a pretty acute case. Well and it had been going on for over a decade, so addressing that was really helpful.

00:36:27:07 – 00:36:51:13 — Dr. Dale Bredesen: Yeah. So again, I would recommend for Chris, please. Yes, you’re talking about CTE, which is really tauopathy. And tau as a prion is promoting this. So yeah, you’d want to look at if you’re going to be getting light stimulation. I always think of this a little bit like lifting weights. Great for you. As long as you’ve got the appropriate nutrition and everything, you know, remember, these things are these things work together.

00:36:51:13 – 00:37:13:20 — Dr. Dale Bredesen: They are coordinated. This brings us back to you, Dr. Berman. When people are doing this, they are stimulating their brains. Do you recommend other things to optimize things so that they are now clearly some people will already be capable of? They’ll have great nutrition, and they’ll have great growth factors. They’ll have all that they need. Other people will not. What do you recommend for the best outcomes?

00:37:14:10 – 00:37:39:18 — Dr. Marvin Berman: Certainly, that they work with a functional medicine practitioner, like a Recode or a Recode coach or someone who, you know, went through functional medicine training. But also, I found that a lot of people get a lot of benefits from things like heart rate variability, and training. Yeah, improving their heart rate variability, which is the variation in the beats in between the time in between beats.

00:37:40:01 – 00:38:09:00 Dr. Marvin Berman: And so that’s a really important outcome measure and an indicator of overall cardiac health. If they do neurofeedback, that can also be an incredibly useful tool because it helps to re-normalize the EEG electrical activity, the network activity. Right. And we’ve been talking about networks all along. Well, the only way to repair the network damage at an electrical level so far is neurofeedback.

00:38:09:11 – 00:38:45:23 — Dr. Marvin Berman: So that’s an effective way of re-normalizing EEG, neuro connectivity. If you treat the tissue level problem with functional medicine and photodiode modulation to increase the system’s health and capacity to improve, then you can introduce neurofeedback as a way to normalize connectivity, right? That will help make this make the improvement stick because you’re putting the floor in right now, all these other interventions sit on the floor, and the EEG is now working to be most efficient.

00:38:46:03 – 00:38:58:12 — Dr. Marvin Berman: So, your central nervous system is functioning more efficiently, and if you make your central nervous system function more efficiently, anything that’s mediated by it is then going to improve if there’s a problem.

00:38:58:24 – 00:39:16:06 — Dr. Dale Bredesen: Yeah. And Chris goes on to say; I do wonder in some cases if our brains can be too damaged, to help, and this comes up a lot. Is there a point where you give up? You know, and I have to say, I got a letter a few years ago from a guy who said, look, please don’t tell people there’s a time to give up.

00:39:16:06 – 00:39:39:10 — Dr. Dale Bredesen: You said my wife had a MoCA score of zero in a nursing home. We put her on the protocol. You know, her MoCA score didn’t go up that much. But guess what? She’s talking again, and she’s engaging again; she’s dressing herself again. She’s really improved. She’s back with us again. So please don’t tell people to give up. And so, I do think, you know, in the long run, we’ll be able to do something for everybody.

00:39:39:10 – 00:40:03:06 — Dr. Dale Bredesen: These are early days. We’re not there yet, but we do see dramatic and repeated improvements. So for Chris, yeah, you mentioned a referral for neurological memory testing. Please. You know, please, you look at this, look at your quantitative EEG, maybe consider some stem cells. There are groups getting good results with stem cells. It depends on what’s driving the problem.

00:40:03:12 – 00:40:26:09 — Dr. Dale Bredesen: And so, let’s discover that in order to give you the best outcomes. Now, you’re right about one thing. When you do have CTE, the tau itself is prions. In other words, the phosphate tau and the tau that is quote, misfolded that is alternatively folded do give rise to more of the same more tau that is the periodic loop nature.

00:40:26:09 – 00:40:54:06 — Dr. Dale Bredesen: But really periodic loops are part of feedforward signaling. They are positive feedback signaling and anti-homeostatic signaling. So yes, we want to reduce that, and there are many ways to do that. So please get together with an experienced practitioner who’s getting good results. The next one is from Steven, who says, how does direct sunlight compare and how much daylight compares to how many minutes of treatment?

00:40:54:06 – 00:40:59:02 — Dr. Dale Bredesen: So obviously, there are some differences. You’re talking about infrared, not visible. Well.

00:40:59:13 – 00:41:13:06 — Dr. Marvin Berman: It’s always a prime question that’s always in question. You can get about the same amount of stimulation with the helmet that you could get in about 100 hours of standing at the equator at noon.

00:41:14:17 – 00:41:35:20 — Dr. Dale Bredesen: Okay. So that’s a good comparison. Yeah. And then Demetrius says, I’ve had brain fog for several years, several years before getting covered. You know, absolutely. You can get it from hormonal imbalance. You can get it from exposure to pathogens in many, many ways to get it. We’re just talking about it with COVID because it’s so common. And we’ve seen it all the time.

00:41:36:16 – 00:41:38:20 — Dr. Marvin Berman: With chemotherapy a great deal.

00:41:38:22 – 00:42:02:15 — Dr. Dale Bredesen: Absolutely. It’s another one. Victoria asks, will a near infrared sauna help the brain? Obviously can help. Certainly, by sweating, by getting rid of the toxins. But two very different mechanisms. One is direct to the brain, as Dr. Berman is talking about. The other one is really helping you detox, just as, you know, sweating from exercise and things like that are doing better.

00:42:02:15 – 00:42:11:17 — Dr. Dale Bredesen: Rajia is asking if the 1070 is something we can purchase, and Dr. Berman if you could talk a little bit about that. So how would Raja get this if she wanted to?

00:42:12:01 – 00:42:39:04 — Dr. Marvin Berman: The company that has taken our research and our development work and now we’re partnering with is called Neuro Devices Ltd and you can reach them at Neuronic https://neuronic.online and you can purchase the device through them, and we’re providing a 5% discount for everybody who’s listening and also an ongoing 10% discount for all the Apollo members.

00:42:39:19 – 00:43:03:17 — Dr. Dale Bredesen: Thank you. Yeah. And again, we’re all here for the same reason. The best outcome. What can we do to get the best outcomes for something that has always been an untreatable, terminal illness? And yet we’re seeing so many people now improving and staying improved. And then Rajia is asking. I guess this is for usually do you think the sinus issue is something to do with the die-off of mold?

00:43:05:23 – 00:43:13:23 — Julie Gregory: I was having sinus issues because I was living in mold at the time, but this exacerbated it. Yeah.

00:43:13:24 – 00:43:14:08 — Dr. Dale Bredesen: Yeah.

00:43:14:16 – 00:43:26:00 — Julie Gregory: I also have a question for Dr. Berman in terms of accessing this therapy. So, are there a lot of practitioners that are offering the EEG and the device?

00:43:26:08 – 00:43:26:19 — Dr. Marvin Berman: Oh yeah.

00:43:27:00 – 00:43:30:11 — Julie Gregory: And neurofeedback and putting it all together?

00:43:30:17 – 00:43:57:19 — Dr. Marvin Berman: There are probably 20,000 providers of neurofeedback worldwide. There are a growing number of providers who are now getting the new radiant and providing it to their patients. The more appropriate way for people to be thinking about this is something that they’re going to have at home and do themselves and that we’re going to teach them how to use it.

00:43:58:00 – 00:44:18:03 — Dr. Marvin Berman: Their providers are going to teach them in support them in how to use it along with the neurofeedback. Neurofeedback can also be done by people themselves at home. We’ve been doing that for 15 years where we get equipment for people, teach them how to use it, and then we provide the ongoing supervision, which we can do online.

00:44:19:03 – 00:44:33:09 — Dr. Dale Bredesen: Okay. All right. And then the next one here is from Julie, who says, Will the Amethyst Ridgeway Biomed do the same thing, wondering what type of infrared light to use at home? Are you familiar with this, the Amethyst Ridgeway Biomet? I’m not familiar with that. Yeah.

00:44:34:13 – 00:45:09:18 — Dr. Marvin Berman: There are these are EMF infrared devices that radiate up into the body. And they can be helpful in a systemic way. I’ve certainly been working with people who have the new radiant, and they have something called a Beamer, and they’re seeing a very useful combination or benefit. So, I think that, again, it’s how smart you are, how skilled you are, how well you have figured out how to integrate these things and that, unfortunately, the patient has now been relegated to the role of clinical quarterback.

00:45:09:18 – 00:45:16:16 — Dr. Marvin Berman: Yeah. And that it just doesn’t make sense when you’ve got this kind of complexity, especially systemic complexity.

00:45:17:06 – 00:45:38:04 — Dr. Dale Bredesen: And often actually fighting with your physician who’s telling you that nothing can be done to prevent, reverse or delay Alzheimer’s, as we’ve heard repeatedly yet despite all the published papers, etc., Carlos asks, As I have a red-light panel that uses red and near you and I get similar benefits. Are you aware of these panels?

00:45:38:19 – 00:46:04:02 Dr. Marvin Berman: Yeah, I am. And there is a range of panels out there. The amount of power that you can deliver with those panels is dependent on the wavelength and the power of the panel. But it’s also the distance from the skin. Yeah. So, the power diminishes it to square the distance. Putting one of those very hot panels near your skin is very risky, right?

00:46:04:05 – 00:46:19:03 — Dr. Dale Bredesen: It makes sense. And then what about lupus patients who have photosensitivity now? Presumably, their photosensitivity is your other wavelengths, but I don’t know that. Have you had any issues with your 1070?

00:46:19:03 – 00:46:22:22 — Dr. Marvin Berman: No, it’s primarily the UV sensitivity that people are dealing with there.

00:46:23:01 – 00:46:31:24 — Dr. Dale Bredesen: Yeah. And then again, Rajiv was saying, where can I get a Q EEG? And so, there are many practitioners who check with your practitioner. Many of them are using quantitative EEGs.

00:46:32:03 – 00:46:34:20 — Dr. Marvin Berman: Yeah. You can email and email the foundation for that.

00:46:36:09 – 00:46:56:13 — Dr. Dale Bredesen: Yeah. I mean there’s they’re very helpful for getting real-time results to see, you know, are you improving this and we like this. Why would you even use it? We had a guy actually just a couple of weeks ago who contacted me, who very smart guy and still, you know, acing all of his cognitive testing. But he knew something was wrong.

00:46:56:13 – 00:47:16:21 — Dr. Dale Bredesen: He basically has MCI. And sure enough, when he did the quantitative EEG and when he did the P300 and the evoked responses, they were all abnormal. It really confirmed that there is something going on with this guy, even though he’s still able to score very, very well at this stage. And that’s clear.

00:47:16:22 – 00:47:25:13 — Dr. Marvin Berman: Yeah, you’re right. There’s a group that you’ve worked with, Evoke Neuroscience. Who does that combination? Yeah, we’re working with Evoke Neuroscience now.

00:47:26:02 – 00:47:52:23 — Dr. Dale Bredesen: Great, fantastic. All right. The next one is from Victoria, who says does this help with a fascia so primary progressive aphasia can be a presentation of Alzheimer’s? We see it all the time. It’s one of the non-domestic presentations typically associated with exposure to toxins, although not always one of the ones that remember well is from paraffin candle burning exposure for years in a relatively young woman, unfortunately.

00:47:53:18 – 00:48:07:05 — Dr. Dale Bredesen: So that’s one. And of course, it can also be with frontotemporal dementia. You’re going to want to know which one of these is going on here. But certainly, again, this is something that presumably you would stimulate as part of the treatment.

00:48:07:16 – 00:48:10:01 — Dr. Marvin Berman: And you would stimulate only on the left hemisphere.

00:48:10:10 – 00:48:36:18 — Dr. Dale Bredesen: Okay. Got it. And that’s certainly where the abnormalities are found pathologically. And then Paul is saying the data presented by margins from our device produced here in the UK with 1070 nanometers. Great. We’re going to get going to be recruiting to run an Alzheimer’s trial here in the UK. It works by producing nitric oxide, improved blood flow as well as mitochondrial effects induction of chaperone proteins which you mentioned earlier.

00:48:36:18 – 00:49:01:18 — Dr. Dale Bredesen: Marvin, and reducing, therefore, amyloid and pathology. So multiple mechanisms, which is fantastic. So, you’ll see here on the notes where with the URLs here are the sites so fantastic. This is again, and we need more proof. We need more files. We need more people, and we need more people to show improvement, to be able to say, look, this is something that we’re seeing all the time.

00:49:02:01 – 00:49:13:13 — Dr. Dale Bredesen: I realize we’re coming here to the end of our time. So, we’ll take the rest of these questions online. And can we get some last words from you, Dr. Berman?

00:49:13:13 – 00:49:49:00 — Dr. Marvin Berman: I’m so grateful to you and Julie and Apollo for making it possible in the grander scheme of things like Facebook Live, to bring us together and make it clear that there really are alternatives that are evidence-based, that is shown to be effective and that are now moving more and more into the mainstream mean and that people need to take them more seriously because there’s evidence to back it up.

00:49:49:08 – 00:50:17:12 Dr. Marvin Berman: And that it’s not just my opinion, it’s not just your opinion. There’s real evidence being provided by clinicians with integrity who, you know, don’t fudge their data and can show what’s really going on and show real results. We have a Trustpilot site where there are people who are using the new radiant and are now posting their responses. So, people can go and look at independent comments from people who are just posting what happened to them.

00:50:17:18 – 00:50:19:06 — Dr. Marvin Berman: And it’s happening more and more now.

00:50:19:21 – 00:50:20:10 — Dr. Dale Bredesen: Absolutely.

00:50:20:11 – 00:50:34:11 — Dr. Marvin Berman: We’re looking forward to working with everybody who’s signed up and hoping that we can work with Apollo to integrate. And can we get the ReCODE doctors to engage with these tools as well?

00:50:34:23 – 00:50:43:22 — Dr. Dale Bredesen: Exactly. And Julie, any last words here from ApoE4 info? And in your experiences over the years.

00:50:43:22 – 00:51:11:18 — Julie Gregory: You know, I just want to thank Dr. Berman for the opportunity to try the device. And I’m very intrigued, and I’m going to come back to it again and give it another try. I certainly believe in the science, and I’m going to make sure I’m out of mold before I try it again and go very slowly. I would love to do it with an EEG and neurofeedback.

00:51:11:18 – 00:51:12:23 — Dr. Marvin Berman: Whole nine yards.

00:51:12:23 – 00:51:14:19 — Julie Gregory: I would really like that.

00:51:14:19 – 00:51:16:00 — Dr. Marvin Berman: Certainly, the whole nine yards.

00:51:16:08 – 00:51:24:07 — Julie Gregory: And, I want to thank you for offering to help all of Dr. Bredesen’s followers.

00:51:24:08 – 00:51:24:23 — Dr. Marvin Berman: Absolutely.

00:51:25:05 – 00:51:25:20 — Julie Gregory: Absolutely.

00:51:26:06 – 00:51:41:13 — Dr. Marvin Berman: We can work that out. There’s somebody close to just about anybody, and if not, there are ways to deliver the EEG system directly to people’s homes so they can do it themselves.

00:51:42:00 – 00:51:58:14 — Dr. Dale Bredesen: Yeah. And for our entire community, let’s all continue to work together to reduce the global burden of dementia. We’re seeing it every day, and we can do it, and we can continue to add new things to enhance it, just as we’ve heard from Dr. Berman today. Thanks again, Dr. Berman, and we’ll take the rest of these questions online.

00:51:58:22 – 00:51:59:06 — Dr. Dale Bredesen: Thanks.